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Wake Forest ...93
Maryland ......85
Am sad.
There have been lots of aspects commented upon in the episode regarding Angel, Spike & Dana - and by and large - I liked these aspects a lot.
Where it got problematic for me, came in the follow-up to BtVS S7, which was problematic itself. (Like how there went from being a handful of remaining potentials - to hundreds of slayers. How crappy was the FE.) And so, I examine this question: Why Andrew?
Why not Giles? Why not Xander, Willow, Faith, or Buffy herself? And why is Andrew the leader, rather than a slayer herself?
Scenario A: We're supposed to take this on it's face.
The council's resources must clearly be strained, and there is too much work to do. Members of the inner circle are too busy or important to go to LA.
Those extra slayers don't help hunt Dana down, because at this point, they're really only trained to fight. Only when Dana has been corralled do the slayers reveal themselves to take her. And they're kept out of the way to this point, because W&H wouldn't key in and help if they were there. Angel wouldn't see it as necessary, and admitting it W&H were needed would make the Slayers look dangerously weak at a time when they don't want to.
And Andrew, believing completely in himself and his stories, would have sold the story - so no one would have thought of how weak the slayers might be at this point in time.
And the doublecross is real. Because W&H can't be trusted with the slayer. Angel himself is fairly trustworthy, but as the head of Corporation Evil - he won't be able to give Dana the attention she needs. (And that's not even counting how he hasn't been giving Connor or Cordy personal attention.)
Scenario B: The Insult
They could have sent anybody. Giles sent Andrew, rather than Xander - because if Xander told Angel "we" didn't trust him, Angel might have written this off as being a product of Xander's general hatred and distrust. Willow or Faith might have seen Angel in action and gone off Council script and entrusted Dana to him after all. Andrew, is generally a lackey, and would do what Giles/Buffy told him too.
More importantly, Angel knows the difference between sending a member of the inner circle, and sending a lackey. Sending Andrew is akin to Angel sending Harmony to meet with Buffy. There can be no real discussion with him. Rejection via Andrew is a dismissal in a much bigger way than anything Xander would say is.
Scenario C: - It's not so dire. Andrew is exaggerating
Buffy lack of trust is nowhere near as evident. As Dana's slayerness was Buffy's creation, it's her responsibility to care for her. Andrew is just there to pick the girl up - but he can't resist the opportunity to make the most of the scenario and puff up his own importance. Buffy doesn't distrust Angel that much, and if he'd called her to ask, he'd know that.
But she's so damn busy with all these new slayers, with coming up with guidelines and practices, and how to handle the aftermath - really a massive undertaking - that she has no time to exercise proper oversight or control. And given the events of S7, she's trying very hard not to be a dictator.
And because Andrew seems like such a lackey, it doesn't occur to Angel that he would be acting outside the official party line. Angel reads "minion" and doesn't question what he says. When he should - because it's easy enough to believe what he's been shown.
Scenario D: Everything you know is a lie.
For all we know, those girls behind Andrew aren't even slayers. And he may or may not actually be in touch with Buffy or really acting on Giles orders. And even if so, we don't really know that Buffy's all that involved. This is, after all, the Andrew who is known to 'embellish' the truth in a major way. And whose loyalties and moral direction can change with the wind.
Buffy trusted Angel and the W&H amulet enough when it saved the world. Buffy trusted Spike when he was in thrall to the FE and a danger to the Potentials she was supposed to protect. Maybe she's busy, frazzled, or out of communication. We don't know anything - only what Andrew tells us, and he isn't very credible. Yeah - he's a lackey. But we don't know who's lackey.
Let's go back to an important line of dialogue, early in the episode:
Gunn: "Doesn't matter what I believe. It's about the evidence."
So. Where is the evidence? Almost everything we have to this point is allegation, hearsay, and circumstantial. It's all second hand.
Here's what really matters - after this incident, Angel feels even more depressed, cut off, and full of doubt in his purpose. And that's exactly what W&H and the SP wanted wasn't it?
To that extent. It doesn't matter whether anything that happened in "Damage" was the truth. For all we know, it's all an elaborate charade set up by the same folks who sent the amulet, who sent Robot Roger Wyndham-Pryce. What matters is what the MoG wind up believing:
That Angel believed the Oracles enough to turn back the day.
That Cordelia believed Skip enough to take the deal.
That Wesley believed in the prophecy enough to kidnap Connor.
That Connor believe Cordy enough to bring her the girl.
That Angel believed Lilah's offer enough to take the W&H deal.
That the MoG believed they could do good at W&H and took the deal.
That Gunn trusts W&H enough to have so much shoved into his brain.
That Angel believes Connor is better off in his new reality.
That Angel believes Eve enough to play W&H's game.
That Angel believes Andrew's claims enough to back down.
Spike & Lindsey is a great example. I'm guessing it's all a lie, and I think Spike probably believes that as well. But if it's not, and somebody dies because he ignored one of Lindsey's visions.
If Angel called Buffy, she might well correct Andrew's incorrect claims. Or she might confirm what Angel is most afraid of. Angel is too willing to believe what Andrew tells him to take that risk.
We don't know the actual truth. We only know what Angel has chosen to believe. And just like Jasmine, it might be a lie. And nobody is both innocuous and unscrupulous enough to set either or both paths in motion - is better suited - than Andrew Wells.
Maryland ......85
Am sad.
There have been lots of aspects commented upon in the episode regarding Angel, Spike & Dana - and by and large - I liked these aspects a lot.
Where it got problematic for me, came in the follow-up to BtVS S7, which was problematic itself. (Like how there went from being a handful of remaining potentials - to hundreds of slayers. How crappy was the FE.) And so, I examine this question: Why Andrew?
Why not Giles? Why not Xander, Willow, Faith, or Buffy herself? And why is Andrew the leader, rather than a slayer herself?
Scenario A: We're supposed to take this on it's face.
The council's resources must clearly be strained, and there is too much work to do. Members of the inner circle are too busy or important to go to LA.
Those extra slayers don't help hunt Dana down, because at this point, they're really only trained to fight. Only when Dana has been corralled do the slayers reveal themselves to take her. And they're kept out of the way to this point, because W&H wouldn't key in and help if they were there. Angel wouldn't see it as necessary, and admitting it W&H were needed would make the Slayers look dangerously weak at a time when they don't want to.
And Andrew, believing completely in himself and his stories, would have sold the story - so no one would have thought of how weak the slayers might be at this point in time.
And the doublecross is real. Because W&H can't be trusted with the slayer. Angel himself is fairly trustworthy, but as the head of Corporation Evil - he won't be able to give Dana the attention she needs. (And that's not even counting how he hasn't been giving Connor or Cordy personal attention.)
Scenario B: The Insult
They could have sent anybody. Giles sent Andrew, rather than Xander - because if Xander told Angel "we" didn't trust him, Angel might have written this off as being a product of Xander's general hatred and distrust. Willow or Faith might have seen Angel in action and gone off Council script and entrusted Dana to him after all. Andrew, is generally a lackey, and would do what Giles/Buffy told him too.
More importantly, Angel knows the difference between sending a member of the inner circle, and sending a lackey. Sending Andrew is akin to Angel sending Harmony to meet with Buffy. There can be no real discussion with him. Rejection via Andrew is a dismissal in a much bigger way than anything Xander would say is.
Scenario C: - It's not so dire. Andrew is exaggerating
Buffy lack of trust is nowhere near as evident. As Dana's slayerness was Buffy's creation, it's her responsibility to care for her. Andrew is just there to pick the girl up - but he can't resist the opportunity to make the most of the scenario and puff up his own importance. Buffy doesn't distrust Angel that much, and if he'd called her to ask, he'd know that.
But she's so damn busy with all these new slayers, with coming up with guidelines and practices, and how to handle the aftermath - really a massive undertaking - that she has no time to exercise proper oversight or control. And given the events of S7, she's trying very hard not to be a dictator.
And because Andrew seems like such a lackey, it doesn't occur to Angel that he would be acting outside the official party line. Angel reads "minion" and doesn't question what he says. When he should - because it's easy enough to believe what he's been shown.
Scenario D: Everything you know is a lie.
For all we know, those girls behind Andrew aren't even slayers. And he may or may not actually be in touch with Buffy or really acting on Giles orders. And even if so, we don't really know that Buffy's all that involved. This is, after all, the Andrew who is known to 'embellish' the truth in a major way. And whose loyalties and moral direction can change with the wind.
Buffy trusted Angel and the W&H amulet enough when it saved the world. Buffy trusted Spike when he was in thrall to the FE and a danger to the Potentials she was supposed to protect. Maybe she's busy, frazzled, or out of communication. We don't know anything - only what Andrew tells us, and he isn't very credible. Yeah - he's a lackey. But we don't know who's lackey.
Let's go back to an important line of dialogue, early in the episode:
Gunn: "Doesn't matter what I believe. It's about the evidence."
So. Where is the evidence? Almost everything we have to this point is allegation, hearsay, and circumstantial. It's all second hand.
Here's what really matters - after this incident, Angel feels even more depressed, cut off, and full of doubt in his purpose. And that's exactly what W&H and the SP wanted wasn't it?
To that extent. It doesn't matter whether anything that happened in "Damage" was the truth. For all we know, it's all an elaborate charade set up by the same folks who sent the amulet, who sent Robot Roger Wyndham-Pryce. What matters is what the MoG wind up believing:
That Angel believed the Oracles enough to turn back the day.
That Cordelia believed Skip enough to take the deal.
That Wesley believed in the prophecy enough to kidnap Connor.
That Connor believe Cordy enough to bring her the girl.
That Angel believed Lilah's offer enough to take the W&H deal.
That the MoG believed they could do good at W&H and took the deal.
That Gunn trusts W&H enough to have so much shoved into his brain.
That Angel believes Connor is better off in his new reality.
That Angel believes Eve enough to play W&H's game.
That Angel believes Andrew's claims enough to back down.
Spike & Lindsey is a great example. I'm guessing it's all a lie, and I think Spike probably believes that as well. But if it's not, and somebody dies because he ignored one of Lindsey's visions.
If Angel called Buffy, she might well correct Andrew's incorrect claims. Or she might confirm what Angel is most afraid of. Angel is too willing to believe what Andrew tells him to take that risk.
We don't know the actual truth. We only know what Angel has chosen to believe. And just like Jasmine, it might be a lie. And nobody is both innocuous and unscrupulous enough to set either or both paths in motion - is better suited - than Andrew Wells.
no subject
I'm inclined to believe that Andrew's statement, and what it meant in the grand scheme, was somewhere between Scenario C and D.
I didn't see anything in Andrew's comments to Spike earlier when discussing Buffy, that would support his being close enough to Buffy to know what she's really thinking. They are living is different countries and communicating by conference call. I think it's probable that Buffy has some knowledge of the Dana situation... she knew just enough to know that Dana was her responsibility (which I think is true) and not to trust W&H with a Slayer. But I think she left the details of the operation to Giles.
I'm firmly in the camp that believes any double-cross would have been Giles' rather than Buffy's strategy. Giles has personal and professional reasons to be distrustful of Angel and/or W&H.
Even if Buffy was wary of Angel's involvement with W&H, she's never been shy about confronting him as in the situation leading her to LA (IWRY) and after Faith's actions (Sanctuary). Angel seemed rather taken aback by Andrew's statement so it seemed (to me anyway) that he wasn't previously apprised of Buffy's alleged distrust.
Initially, I couldn't understand why Angel would believe anything the little twirp has to say, although I suppose that in the absence of solid knowledge of Buffy's feelings, he was better off not pressing the issue at that moment given the very dangerous situation. Also,I agree that the same coming from someone like Xander, Angel could easily have dismissed it for the reasons your raised. Plus, Angel trusts Buffy enough to defer to her and I think he would have done so no matter what.
Someone else pointed out that Andrew never specifically said that Buffy sent the orders... "Who do you think gave the orders?" or something like that. I think Andrew is either inferring based on what his mentor Giles said, and/or embellishing the facts that may know - which is totally in character.
In any event, I think less than subtle point the writers are trying to make is that Angel may be deluding himself if he thinks he do good while within the belly of the beast, and that Angel is isolated and lost.