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Periodically, I still involve myself with very old debates on TWoP with the same people I have overdebated things with for too long. And for all the times that I sometimes wonder why, there are just priceless quotes and moments that make it worth it...
In a discussion over how the group dynamics function, over the prominence of Buffy's role, and to what extent she listened to others, if too little... and so on. Generally the discussion over the Buffy-Xander argument dynamic between "Passion" and "Revelations"... After a point, I'd brought up The Jordan Rules. Namely that, when you have a performer of a certain superior caliber on your team - and you want that performer to still accept you as a teammate - then you may have to learn to tolerate a certain amount of prima donna BS that isn't particularly fair if you value overall success.
The result being the following quotation:
And do not get me started about Michael "overrated" Jordan. I was attending UNC when this guy left college to go pro, and you would have thought he was the second coming. I don't care if he's got a fifteen foot jump shot and an Olympic gold medal, there's a million ballplayers out there who have the potential to be just as good if not better. And none of them were in Space Jam.
A million ballplayers with the potential to be just as good, if not better, than Michael Jordan. I suppose, with a very fluid definition of "potential", this isn't a laughable statement. In the history of basketball, up to and including today, these are the players under seven feet tall that are or were "just as good, if not better" than MJ:
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
That's it. That's the list. If there's another Jordan out there, trust me, David Stern is very interested in finding him. There isn't. MJ's excellence wasn't just physical skill - it was mentality - and only a tiny fraction of the population has it.
Someday, I'll write out the Buffy Summers-Michael Jordan parallel. Really I will. Okay, actually I won't. But I'd talk it out.
If you have an MJ (in his relative prime) on your team, you are an instant contender. And you win or lose, based upon how well MJ uses the rest of his team to maximize performance. And so what you've got to do, is sell MJ on that. And appease MJ. Because you can replace everybody else on the roster and still win - as long as MJ uses them. You can't replace him. Ergo, Jordan has the power.
And that's it, in the end. Xander can get pissed at Buffy and yell at her all he wants. But Buffy's not required to listen to him or anyone else, or be cowed or bullied. Because she can go out and make the plays nobody else can, and they live and die based upon how she performs, and how well she uses other people. And if yelling at her in anger is going to make her act defensively and lash out, rather than sway her, then it's stupid to do so. It's better to suck up the pride, accept her feelings, and find another way to move her.
And it might well mean looking out for the wellness of her state of mind more than you look toward your own ego.
It's not an exact comparison. Jordan was, in many ways, a terrible person to have to be on a team with. Unless you liked winning championships. The early Jordan was a selfish gunner, ran a coach out of town, and did not play well with teammates. The Jordan who won titles, made his teammates better and kept them involved. But he didn't do it with hugs, and he didn't do it with Kumbayas.
Jordan terrified people. He'd give you the ball, but you'd damn well not let him down. That's the secret. There may not be a single person on the planet more ruthlessly devoted to victory.
Now - watching BtVS, it was my own sense that Buffy's situation in Sunnydale would have been better for her (and most folks actually) if she had a little, or a lot, more Jordan. Her situation would have been bettered if the Scoobies had a Phil Jackson acting as Big Chief Triangle for them in S6. I think you'd have a very different and better Faith (and sooner) if Buffy had treated her as Jordan treated Pippen.
(Am now waiting for the BtVS NBA slashers on my FList to write Jordan/Rodman = Buffy/Spike RPS)
*Tumbleweeds*
As it worked out, in S7 it seemed like I got Buffy Summers as MJ the Washington Wizards years, but what can you do?
Oh, and Spurs in six.
In a discussion over how the group dynamics function, over the prominence of Buffy's role, and to what extent she listened to others, if too little... and so on. Generally the discussion over the Buffy-Xander argument dynamic between "Passion" and "Revelations"... After a point, I'd brought up The Jordan Rules. Namely that, when you have a performer of a certain superior caliber on your team - and you want that performer to still accept you as a teammate - then you may have to learn to tolerate a certain amount of prima donna BS that isn't particularly fair if you value overall success.
The result being the following quotation:
And do not get me started about Michael "overrated" Jordan. I was attending UNC when this guy left college to go pro, and you would have thought he was the second coming. I don't care if he's got a fifteen foot jump shot and an Olympic gold medal, there's a million ballplayers out there who have the potential to be just as good if not better. And none of them were in Space Jam.
A million ballplayers with the potential to be just as good, if not better, than Michael Jordan. I suppose, with a very fluid definition of "potential", this isn't a laughable statement. In the history of basketball, up to and including today, these are the players under seven feet tall that are or were "just as good, if not better" than MJ:
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
That's it. That's the list. If there's another Jordan out there, trust me, David Stern is very interested in finding him. There isn't. MJ's excellence wasn't just physical skill - it was mentality - and only a tiny fraction of the population has it.
Someday, I'll write out the Buffy Summers-Michael Jordan parallel. Really I will. Okay, actually I won't. But I'd talk it out.
If you have an MJ (in his relative prime) on your team, you are an instant contender. And you win or lose, based upon how well MJ uses the rest of his team to maximize performance. And so what you've got to do, is sell MJ on that. And appease MJ. Because you can replace everybody else on the roster and still win - as long as MJ uses them. You can't replace him. Ergo, Jordan has the power.
And that's it, in the end. Xander can get pissed at Buffy and yell at her all he wants. But Buffy's not required to listen to him or anyone else, or be cowed or bullied. Because she can go out and make the plays nobody else can, and they live and die based upon how she performs, and how well she uses other people. And if yelling at her in anger is going to make her act defensively and lash out, rather than sway her, then it's stupid to do so. It's better to suck up the pride, accept her feelings, and find another way to move her.
And it might well mean looking out for the wellness of her state of mind more than you look toward your own ego.
It's not an exact comparison. Jordan was, in many ways, a terrible person to have to be on a team with. Unless you liked winning championships. The early Jordan was a selfish gunner, ran a coach out of town, and did not play well with teammates. The Jordan who won titles, made his teammates better and kept them involved. But he didn't do it with hugs, and he didn't do it with Kumbayas.
Jordan terrified people. He'd give you the ball, but you'd damn well not let him down. That's the secret. There may not be a single person on the planet more ruthlessly devoted to victory.
Now - watching BtVS, it was my own sense that Buffy's situation in Sunnydale would have been better for her (and most folks actually) if she had a little, or a lot, more Jordan. Her situation would have been bettered if the Scoobies had a Phil Jackson acting as Big Chief Triangle for them in S6. I think you'd have a very different and better Faith (and sooner) if Buffy had treated her as Jordan treated Pippen.
(Am now waiting for the BtVS NBA slashers on my FList to write Jordan/Rodman = Buffy/Spike RPS)
*Tumbleweeds*
As it worked out, in S7 it seemed like I got Buffy Summers as MJ the Washington Wizards years, but what can you do?
Oh, and Spurs in six.
no subject
The interesting thing to me, though, is that I think Buffy could have gotten superstar treatment from the people around her if she'd demanded it. The council doesn't bend on Angel in S3, but two years later - when she demands Giles be re-hired and given back pay, they cave.
Buffy, if she'd wanted to, could have been MJ, or TO, or Van Halen demanding a bowl of M&Ms with the green ones all picked out. It's to her credit, the degree to which a Diva she doesn't rise... in a lot of ways, I think she might have been a bit more fulfilled in life had she. I think she would have gotten more out of some people had she been demanding.
Now - the issue of why she feels she isn't supposed to be demanding - that's a different one, and where ME's gender assumptions come in, IMHO.
no subject
Buffy could have been more demanding and seen results. But I wonder if the other characters could have been more accomadating of a less traditionally masculine leadership style. Why must she forced to become more "masculine" to assume power as leader? Buffy did take on more masculine leadership traits as the series progressed, and the more she conformed to these demands, the more everyone disliked her for not meeting their expectations.
Now I'm just randomly babbling.
no subject
And it's something I come to see differenly because of my engagement with sports. (Cue Bob Costas metaphor for life stuff...) And how odd it is for me to see a star athlete not be accorded the prerogatives that come with having that power. On a gender in sports level, it's sort of interesting to see cases where women are playing against men - such as Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam or Danica Patrick. And how different people handle it. But it'll be another manner entirely if we had women & men in team sports...