Death and Pat Tillman (Spoilers for AtS5.15 -AHiTW)

[dlgood]

Why is Fred dead? Proximate cause - because Gunn signed papers that allowed Knox to sneak the coffin through. Bigger picture - because she was there. To the extent that it was her choice ('mindwipe') Fred chose to be in LA, chose to be in that fight, and could have gone elsewhere. She didn't And she's become a casualty of her lifestyle. It is sad. It sucks. It's also how life works sometimes.

As illustrated by the death of former Arizona Cardinals safety, Pat Tillman. A few years ago, Tillman gave up his NFL career (passing on a $3.6 million contract) and enlisted in the US military. At Arizona State, he was both a star athlete and an honor student, and he felt that it was more worthwhile to serve his country than play football, particularly after September 11. Tillman became an Army Ranger, and insisted on recieving no special media attention or treatment for his decision.

Today he was found dead in Afghanistan. I don't know the specific cause of death. Or who was to blame. Do we blame his CO or the pentagon for the strategies. For sending him to war. Perhaps. Maybe there was faulty equipment.

But Tillman made a choice, and he chose to be a soldier. Even though he knew the risks, and even though he could have been somewere else. And he did so, because he felt that joining in the fight was worthwhile to him. It satisfied his preference. And he died following through on that decision. And Fred died following through on hers.

It's sad. It's tragic. The Tillman family grieves. Those who love Fred grieve. But it's life.

Comments

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Sure, there's always one more apocalypse, but there's always one more war and while Pat Tillman died and hundreds lose their legs to IEDs in Iraq, there are those who survive and aren't broken. Changed? Sure, but not broken. I don't think Joss believes that.

I worked for John Kerry, and (like him or not) he's example enough that people can go through real war experiences and go on to lead lives where they incorporate but aren't broken by those experiences.

I guess that's not on Whedon's menu. Apparently, you have to escape it entirely, or you get consumed. Very Lovecraftian.

I'm a middle class kid from the suburbs. I went to public school and state universities, and works in the government sector. I have faith in society and social institutions. Increasingly, I get the feeling that, from Whedon's perspective, I'm The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit - and that he's not speaking to me.

[bhadrasvapna.livejournal.com]

Increasingly, I get the feeling that, from Whedon's perspective, I'm The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit - and that he's not speaking to me.

Do you need to be spoken to? Is every story written to everyone? Do you need to be empowered? Is the Patriarchy hurting you? Is conforming causing your heart to be ripped out? Have you gone from heart to heartless? Have you lost reason? Have you lost the mission?

One of the most misunderstood books in the Bible is The Book of Revelation. It is taken to be a literal description of the end of the world. There are people (my favorites are the Van Impes) that comb through world events trying to prove that the end is coming. Here is an excerpt describing what the book is from the NAB: The book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except against the historical background that occasioned its writing. Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was comprised as resistance literature to meet a crisis.

It is interesting that Joss bases the Buffyverse on the idea of apocalypse. His gospel of cooperation, love, friendship, faith and hope is written for the same reason, namely to empower those who need it. It is to give hope to those who need it to hang on. It shows them how to hang on. If that isn't you, I'm not sure this message will make much sense. You can say that the system works and maybe for you it does. The system just canceled Angel. It canceled Firefly last year after treating it very badly. It canceled Miracles and Wonderfalls. I'm still waiting for Marti's show. Tarzan was another show that was critically acclaimed that the system didn't give a chance.

Everyone Loves Raymond has been on how many years? What year is this for Survivior? What about other so-called reality shows. DeKnight got his start on MTV's Undressed. How much crap is out there? Why is it out there? That is what the system produces. That is what is indicative of this society you are so proud of.

From here I typically launch into a rant about modern art and the lack of feeling there. I transition from there to how people have traded closed lives in high-rise apartment buildings to closed lives behind their white picket fences in Suburbia. Then how that isolation transfers to the world situation. Growing up in the suburbs may have worked out for you personally, but it is also responsible for the situation that you have to deal with. It speaks to you more than you realize.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

His gospel of cooperation, love, friendship, faith and hope is written for the same reason, namely to empower those who need it. It is to give hope to those who need it to hang on. It shows them how to hang on. If that isn't you, I'm not sure this message will make much sense.

The message would make sense, if he told that message with any degree of nuance.

All these things - this is what social institutions do. By gathering together and forming connections through faith, hope, love and cooperation, we empower ourselves and each other.

Except that institutions are evil. Unless it's our specific institution, which is not evil. Presumably, because we are unrepresentative of all other people. Because we are morally superior, our institutions (such as Buffy's empowerment of slayers) are good. Whereas other institutions are tainted by the original sin of not being formed by us, and are irrideemable.

How much crap is out there? Why is it out there? That is what the system produces. That is what is indicative of this society you are so proud of.

I am proud of it, warts and all. Just as I am proud of myself, warts and all. Despite my flaws, I am redeemable. If I commit a sin or perform a virtuous act, it reveals something of value about myself. If society produces something good or bad, it says something about society.

Perhaps, "Everybody Love Raymond" has something of merit about it. Perhaps it speaks to something within society. Just because you do not value "Raymond" does not mean it can be dismissed. It is valued by people who are not you. If what is of value to you is worthy of the respect of others, then so is what is of value to them. If you are supposed to value your "specialness", if I am supposed to value your "specialness" - than so too, must you value mine.

I don't watch "Raymond". But it does offer value to people who are not me. It offers value to people who are not you. I can't easily dismiss it.

In the end, I believe that human institutions are extensions of human individuals. I believe that individual humans are capable of both good and evil, and that a sinner can achieve redemption, that a sinner can pursue atonement. And I hold that social institutions, whether it be a family, a scooby gang, a collective of slayers, a PTA, a Brownie troop, and so on... are subject to the same considerations.

I believe that Angel can attempt to atone for his sinful nature. I believe that Faith can attempt to atone for her past crimes. I even believe that Faith can succeed in her attempt.

Just as my knee is a part of my leg, is part of my body, is part of me - so to am I a part of my social institutions. And as I can rehabilitate an injury to my knee, so too society can be rehabilitated and healed as well.

If society is irrideemable, if institutions are irredeemable, then so are we. So am I. So are you.

You are making some huge leaps there

[bhadrasvapna.livejournal.com]

First, we have to define evil. Evil is anything that hinders our individuality. It does not mean it isn't practical or by some other moral standard it isn't "good." Anything that hinders our individuation causes unconscious ramifications. When we suppress our individuality, the Wrath is waiting to rip our hearts out, again and again and again.

Second, I said nothing that made *my* institutions immune from this claim. In another post, I even gave examples why the GSUSA can be classified as "evil." You are attributing things to me that I have not said. All institutions are tainted by the original sin of demanding something from their members that takes away from their individuality. That includes the groups I belong to. I belong to these groups because they allow me to express certain things, but to do that, I give up certain others.

Third where did I even mention the word irredeemable? Is society irredeemable? Can't really say. Most people don't give a fig arse about redemption and don't work for it. A convoy can only move as fast as its slowest moving vehicle. I have yet to see anything that shows me that society will reach utopia in my lifetime, as such whether it can or cannot is purely an intellectual exercise that has little bearing on my life. I have more important things to think about, such as remembering where I put the black thread so I can sew up the oriental dress I ripped tonight.

All I can do is work on myself, raise my daughters and contribute to individuation in my own way. I don't really care if you value me or not. That has no bearing on my life.

Re: You are making some huge leaps there

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

First, we have to define evil. Evil is anything that hinders our individuality.

The mere existence of any self-willed indivudual not under my direct command automatically hinders my individuality.

All institutions are tainted by the original sin of demanding something from their members that takes away from their individuality.

At which point, every person who enters into an institution commits the sin of demanding something from other members that takes away individuality.

I reject that. On our own, neither my neighbor, nor I, can afford a satellite dish. By pooling our resources, we now share a dish. As a team, we now have more than we did on our own. But, some element of out individuality is sacrificed because we form a team, even as we fulfill our own individuality in the process.

Does this mean we're done here? Because I pretty much have to reject your definition out of hand.

Re: You are making some huge leaps there

[bhadrasvapna.livejournal.com]

Does this mean we're done here? Because I pretty much have to reject your definition out of hand.

If all you want to do is look at the show from your limited perspective using your definitions, then I would say that we are finished. If you believe that owning a satelite dish is a pursuit more worthy than individuation, I don't see how any discussion can be held.

Re: You are making some huge leaps there

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

If you believe that owning a satelite dish is a pursuit more worthy than individuation

Because owning that metaphorical satellite dish is pursing my individuation. So is contemplating philosophy. So is giving up my free time to volunteer on my City Traffic Planning Board, to work voter registration drives, to tutor on the weekends. I can fulfill my individuation by doing things solely for myself. And I can fulfill my individuation by sacrificing some of that same individuation to a community.

How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature, which interest him in the fortune of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it except the pleasure of seeing it. Of this kind is pity or compassion, the emotion which we feel for the misery of others, when we either see it, or are made to conceive it in a very lively manner. That we often derive sorrow from the sorrow of others, is a matter of fact too obvious to require any instances to prove it; for this sentiment, like all the other original passions of human nature, is by no means confined to the virtuous and humane, though they perhaps may feel it with the most exquisite sensibility. The greatest ruffian, the most hardened violator of the laws of society, is not altogether without it.
---Adam Smith, Theory of Moral Sentiments, 1759

I suppose it's the difference between being fundamentally community focused as opposed to being self-focused as an individual. Essentially, I don't believe that I'm an island. I believe that I am a part of something that is at once, both greater than myself, but also composed of myself. It's Economics 101. It's human nature.

[ludditerobot.livejournal.com]

I'm largely in the same boat. Slight difference in that my dad and most of my dad's friends and co-workers wore blue uniforms throughout their careers. Some of 'em had Vietnam service ribbons, although Dad's hardship service was Johnston Island instead. My best friend's dad lead the tankers that refueled the F-111s that bombed Libya, and I remember his mom wandering around the house like a ghost whenever the wing was out.

I think, in some ways, the Watchers and everyone else are like a comedy-drained MIB (an analogy derived because I saw it w/ der kinder last night). Remember the scene outside the jewelry store, when J fires the Noisy Cricket? K tells him that the fact that humans don't know what's going on is the only way they can get on with their lives, and that there's always another impending apocalypse, and the only way to enjoy a life is to wipe your memories and tell the Post you've been in a coma. Same kinda worldview as the Watcher/Initiative deal, isn't it? (Couldn't you just see Riley with a Glock in the testing scene?) Thing is, there's no retirement plan in that mindset, and it seems he can't imagine another, which is why his treatment of the Initiative and Riley sucks so bad. Maybe it's the Lovecraft influence. Maybe he knows no other plots.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Thing is, there's no retirement plan in that mindset, and it seems he can't imagine another, which is why his treatment of the Initiative and Riley sucks so bad. Maybe it's the Lovecraft influence. Maybe he knows no other plots.

That's my guess. I just can't buy that. My experience of the world is so different.

Dreaded Sports Metaphor
You join the football team as a player. And if you stay in the game long enough, eventually you won't be able to play anymore. You get injured, get old, get slow, get beaten. But you aren't dead. If you still want to stay in the game, you can be a coach, or a general manager, or eventually an owner. Or you can be a broadcaster. Or you can work as an equipment supplier. And so on... We see the same thing with the military.

JW's world doesn't have a George Halas. It doesn't have a John McCain. There's destruction and death, but not much in the way of long term growth stories and career evolution. Ride that horse to death and put it out to pasture.

But it does have a Michael Jordan - because oh dear does Buffy's S7 performace correspond in a very uncanny way with MJ's career as a player and executive in Washington DC. And it's not in a pretty way.

[rahael.livejournal.com]

Thanks for saying that. While truamatic experiences can be painful, it doesn't mean you are written off as a person. This is why I got really irritated by Damage. I got the same feeling you did.

You can emerge from the fires. You can emerge a whole person. You can be a person who has a happy, contented life, who has things to live for, people to love.

War, and the warzone can be endured. I too have faith in society. Those who condemn those stable institutions that make up civil society haven't seen a society where they crumble away, where society becomes atomised and there's no one 'preventing' your individualism. Trouble is, without other people, to work with , to talk to, to argue with, to disagree and compromise with - your individualism doesn't matter. Society and its institutions can work to *protect individuality.* I passionately believe this. I LONG for the day my community can regain its institutions, it's suburbs its fences, it's civil community. Courts, police, the law, the industries, the businesses, the trade unions, political parties.

Your individuality doesn't matter when you can't earn any money to feed your children. It doesn't help you when there isn't any food supplies coming in, so even those with money starve. It doesn't matter much, when there's no one to stop you being abducted at night. It doesn't heal you when there is no prospect of justice. When it's every man and woman for themselves, and the longer it goes on, the more the community forgets how to operate a civil community that protects its inhabitants.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I'm actually something of a fatalist. I just find that Fatalism can free you and empower you when you realize how much you can do to control that which you can exert control over.

I looked at S1-3 of Buffy, and at AtS episodes like "Epiphany" and I do feel empowered. I look at S7, and I feel demoralized and offended. W&H is probably too corrupt to be saved. And there's really not much drama and shock in telling that story.

But I know community involvement can work. It's my civic religion. It's really funny how the plugged in Government Professors loved BtVS-3 so much, because I know how much S7 offends and fails on the very same grounds S3 endears.