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I don't approach BtVS from a "gender studies" perspective, but rather from a "Public Policy" perspective. Looking at "Chosen" in terms of Democratic Governance theories, it reads far more like a bureaucratic realignment rather than a metaphor for empowerment. Certainly, it's dramatic and empowering for the Potential, but offers little for the community as a whole.
It ties back to “Why we Fight”. The Mission. Everything flows from the mission.
And the mission of the Slayer, of the Watchers Council, of the Shadowmen, of the Guardian is, at heart, fairly simple: fight supernatural threats. Presumably, to defend and protect the community against those threats…
How each Institution fulfills that mission, is very different. I’d know that rather well. I am, after all, a defense contractor. I’ve interned in the Senate and worked on a congressional campaign. Congress. I’ve worked for an International Security Think Tank And I have one of them fancy degrees in Public Policy with a focus on Management and National Security.
The Shadowmen sought to create a slayer. But in order to preserve their bureaucratic preeminence atop the security pyramid, the Council maintained control over the slayer. There would be one girl, and the council, not the slayer, would retain institutional memory. The potentials were of the same class of the slayer, but merely less affected because they lacked her physical might.
Buffy, on occasion, used the uniqueness of the slayer as a source of power (“I quit”) in her bureaucratic struggles against the Council, in order to propound her organizing vision rather than the council’s own. And she cultivated her own loyal support team, thus reducing her dependence on council. Still, for the most part, Buffy shared the same guiding council vision – that the community she sought to defend had no real role in that defense. While community was not inherently discouraged to participate, neither was community sought out.
“Graduation” marked a contrast. Buffy embarked on a Public Involvement campaign. She enlisted members of the graduating class in a battle for their own defense. For the most part, those not already part of her politburo had no actual input, but she did encourage participation.
Season 7 disappointed me for many reasons. Among others, I found it artless, dull, and frequently so void of internal logic as to be nonsensical. These are issues of execution, not intent. (Though muddled intent leads to poor execution.) But these issues aside, “Chosen” disappoints me at its very core. Even if I grant that empowering tons of slayers with minimal aforethought is inherently good, even if I grant that they had any choice or say at all, even if I grant Buffy engaged the potentials in a democratic manner even if I grant the soundness of Buffy’s battle tactics…
It disappoints, because it doesn't address Public Service as a core value of the Slayer Enterprise mission. It’s the celebration of internal reform for it's own sake (even though it's such a great reform) beyond its significance. It’s spoken repeatedly of how Buffy empowers those potentials, but there is no tie-in to how this particular empowerment empowers anybody else.
When the town is beset by many foes, Buffy does nothing to raise community awareness. She does nothing to further community empowerment. This doesn’t mean they had to have civilians fighting with them – but there would have been other ways for the community to participate in its defense – perhaps in non-combat support or planning roles. In LA, Charles Gunn built a neighborhood defense organization. Anne by organizing an open shelter, has made her community safer. Even after Gunn leaves his boys behind, the community is better prepared to defend itself.
Buffy and the scoobies, on the other hand do no such thing. That the town is safer with Buffy gone over the summer than it was before she came, is because she expanded a bureaucracy such that she left a presence (in the form of Willow and Xander) when not there personally. The townsfolk, themselves, were no safer on their own.
The potentials can be seen as metaphorical representations of society-at-large. But this is a world where they are already marked and identifiable as special, and then sequestered from mainstream society because they are special, and empowered again because they are chosen. This undermines that metaphor.
I celebrate that Buffy would be about empowering these potentials, but it bothers me that it's not also about empowering anybody else. There needed to be a tie back to how empowerment of society as a whole - how Buffy as CEO of Slayer Enterprise serves her customer (the citizens) through this reform.
In essence, she’s done two things. First, she placed more cops on the streets. Secondly, she’s given those cops a much better say inside the division. That’s about it. She hasn’t done due diligence to make sure those cops are good cops. She hasn’t done anything about the Thin Blue Line that separates most cops from the rest of society. She hasn’t done anything on the topic of public involvement. She doesn’t prioritize her community, and though Buffy emerges victorious over the Shadowmen in her internecine struggle, the community is destroyed in the process.
This, by the way, is a major reason why the police forces are subject to oversight, and why police are generally charged to participate in the community to serve the community. The citizens of a community are important stakeholders, and in public service, stakeholder involvement (either directly, or though representatitves) is key part of performance. To reinforce the core value. Whether through stagnation, corruption, neglect, or abuse of power – when the Public Service organization loses sight of the mission, the public doesn’t get served. Faith’s murder spree. The Scoobies’ negligence of their own community, leading to it’s eventual downfall and destruction.
In the end, for all its themes of empowerment, “Chosen” is also a story about a group of bureaucrats who have lost touch with the fundamental organizational purpose which justifies the existence of that bureaucracy in the first place. Who fail to fulfill the mission to defend their community, in no small part, because they no longer see that as a core value. And amidst the hoopla and congratulations of Buffy’s “empowerment”, I’m not so certain that value hasn’t been lost on the new generation of slayers as well.
It ties back to “Why we Fight”. The Mission. Everything flows from the mission.
And the mission of the Slayer, of the Watchers Council, of the Shadowmen, of the Guardian is, at heart, fairly simple: fight supernatural threats. Presumably, to defend and protect the community against those threats…
How each Institution fulfills that mission, is very different. I’d know that rather well. I am, after all, a defense contractor. I’ve interned in the Senate and worked on a congressional campaign. Congress. I’ve worked for an International Security Think Tank And I have one of them fancy degrees in Public Policy with a focus on Management and National Security.
The Shadowmen sought to create a slayer. But in order to preserve their bureaucratic preeminence atop the security pyramid, the Council maintained control over the slayer. There would be one girl, and the council, not the slayer, would retain institutional memory. The potentials were of the same class of the slayer, but merely less affected because they lacked her physical might.
Buffy, on occasion, used the uniqueness of the slayer as a source of power (“I quit”) in her bureaucratic struggles against the Council, in order to propound her organizing vision rather than the council’s own. And she cultivated her own loyal support team, thus reducing her dependence on council. Still, for the most part, Buffy shared the same guiding council vision – that the community she sought to defend had no real role in that defense. While community was not inherently discouraged to participate, neither was community sought out.
“Graduation” marked a contrast. Buffy embarked on a Public Involvement campaign. She enlisted members of the graduating class in a battle for their own defense. For the most part, those not already part of her politburo had no actual input, but she did encourage participation.
Season 7 disappointed me for many reasons. Among others, I found it artless, dull, and frequently so void of internal logic as to be nonsensical. These are issues of execution, not intent. (Though muddled intent leads to poor execution.) But these issues aside, “Chosen” disappoints me at its very core. Even if I grant that empowering tons of slayers with minimal aforethought is inherently good, even if I grant that they had any choice or say at all, even if I grant Buffy engaged the potentials in a democratic manner even if I grant the soundness of Buffy’s battle tactics…
It disappoints, because it doesn't address Public Service as a core value of the Slayer Enterprise mission. It’s the celebration of internal reform for it's own sake (even though it's such a great reform) beyond its significance. It’s spoken repeatedly of how Buffy empowers those potentials, but there is no tie-in to how this particular empowerment empowers anybody else.
When the town is beset by many foes, Buffy does nothing to raise community awareness. She does nothing to further community empowerment. This doesn’t mean they had to have civilians fighting with them – but there would have been other ways for the community to participate in its defense – perhaps in non-combat support or planning roles. In LA, Charles Gunn built a neighborhood defense organization. Anne by organizing an open shelter, has made her community safer. Even after Gunn leaves his boys behind, the community is better prepared to defend itself.
Buffy and the scoobies, on the other hand do no such thing. That the town is safer with Buffy gone over the summer than it was before she came, is because she expanded a bureaucracy such that she left a presence (in the form of Willow and Xander) when not there personally. The townsfolk, themselves, were no safer on their own.
The potentials can be seen as metaphorical representations of society-at-large. But this is a world where they are already marked and identifiable as special, and then sequestered from mainstream society because they are special, and empowered again because they are chosen. This undermines that metaphor.
I celebrate that Buffy would be about empowering these potentials, but it bothers me that it's not also about empowering anybody else. There needed to be a tie back to how empowerment of society as a whole - how Buffy as CEO of Slayer Enterprise serves her customer (the citizens) through this reform.
In essence, she’s done two things. First, she placed more cops on the streets. Secondly, she’s given those cops a much better say inside the division. That’s about it. She hasn’t done due diligence to make sure those cops are good cops. She hasn’t done anything about the Thin Blue Line that separates most cops from the rest of society. She hasn’t done anything on the topic of public involvement. She doesn’t prioritize her community, and though Buffy emerges victorious over the Shadowmen in her internecine struggle, the community is destroyed in the process.
This, by the way, is a major reason why the police forces are subject to oversight, and why police are generally charged to participate in the community to serve the community. The citizens of a community are important stakeholders, and in public service, stakeholder involvement (either directly, or though representatitves) is key part of performance. To reinforce the core value. Whether through stagnation, corruption, neglect, or abuse of power – when the Public Service organization loses sight of the mission, the public doesn’t get served. Faith’s murder spree. The Scoobies’ negligence of their own community, leading to it’s eventual downfall and destruction.
In the end, for all its themes of empowerment, “Chosen” is also a story about a group of bureaucrats who have lost touch with the fundamental organizational purpose which justifies the existence of that bureaucracy in the first place. Who fail to fulfill the mission to defend their community, in no small part, because they no longer see that as a core value. And amidst the hoopla and congratulations of Buffy’s “empowerment”, I’m not so certain that value hasn’t been lost on the new generation of slayers as well.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
We as a community don't elect the army either. We elect those who say there needs to be a draft and to be honest they don't really decide either. Circumstances dictate that. The Shadowmen are some sort of tribal council and who knows how they are picked. Tales of the Slayer mentions elders.
The difference between the draft and being Chosen is the idea of Potential. Who determines who has Potential? That is where your metaphor fails because this isn't the metaphor Joss is using. His Potential translates as talent. As Marti says it is Joss' "exploration of being extraordinary." Who gets to determine how we are extraordinary or who is? That would be God, if you believe in Him. Since Joss doesn't, that question remains unanswered by the series. Some people just have Potential. He expanded this season 7 to really focus on Willow's magick, Xander's ability to see things and Dawn's whatever.
The US Military, through the chain of command, is ultimately held accountable to the community it is supposed to defend.
The community the US Military is supposed to defend is humanity itself. When we commit troops for UN actions, we are defending the free world. Things like the Patriots Act say how accountable we wish to be held to this community. The military isn't even accountable to US civilians. That is why we have the UCMJ. Military Justice is different than civilian. What happens on a military base or oversees is only the jurisdiction of civilian authorities when the military says so. How accountable is this? The chain of command separates the military and shields it, much like the Watcher's Council would have done with Faith.
My issue, as stated over and over again - is how little any of this army reform actually has to do with the citizens. Buffy has liberalized the structures of her army. She hasn't done anything with respect to the Civilian population.
Then you are saying that the general population has an obligation to do something even though they can't handle it physically or psychologically. That is a running theme of the series, denial. People are quite content to believe gas leaks, gangs on PCP and sewer backups. Buffy protects more than people's lives. She protects their innocence. They don't have to know what goes bump in the night. You are saying that she should take this from them.
Is this a good message? Is this even part of Joss' intended message? The problem with looking at the show through a lens it wasn't written with is you are going to find problems because they weren't concerned with these things. Criticizing a show on this doesn't really seem fair to me. We can look at what the general population should be forced to know, if you want.
The US Military is ultimately drawn from US Society by US Society. Even if a particular soldier doesn't value society, they can be held accountable to society by society.
Works in theory, but who was going to hold Maggie and Adam accountable? The military couldn't. Civilians couldn't. Only Buffy could ultimately. In many ways season 4 shows how ineffective society can be in these instances. I'm under the impression that what Maggie did was sanctioned by the Chain of Command and it was only because it proved unmanageable that it was terminated. How is that accountability to society?
. Her loyalties thus, are toward her institution, and not toward the Society she was, in theory, supposed to be defending.
Then you just don't get Buffy. What makes Buffy accountable isn't force. When she is the force, force isn't going to do it, just like who watches the military. Instead what makes Buffy accountable is what she learned season 5, being Slayer doesn't rob her of her ability to love, her humanity. THAT is why her loyalties aren't with "her institution." They are with humanity.
So what if she didn't mobilize the general population. The general population couldn't handle it. If they could, then Joss' theme of a girl who has all this power that no one realizes or appreciates wouldn't have worked.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
I know that. It's part of my problem, because it's ultimately also a story of elitism. In celebrating Buffy's championing of those with "Potential", it's key not to forget how much she fails those who don't have "Potential". How she doesn't stand up for them. How they've become refugees, and she doesn't even think on them. How she fixates on a two class system and disregards the plight of the lower class. I would have liked S7 more if there were a coda - if I knew that Buffy, having freed the potentials - was now inclined to help out those who didn't have that type of potential achieve theirs too. But I just don't see anything in the text of S7 that suggests she thinks about it. And it should be in there.
As for Military Accountability, it's important to note that the Chain of Command is set up not by the Military alone, but by Civilian Authorities. Elected Officials choose who serves in the top post - Congress can investigate the military, the President can fire and replace generals. And the public can vote out members of Congress and the President. It's indirect and tenuous, but a link exists.
Then you just don't get Buffy. What makes Buffy accountable isn't force. When she is the force, force isn't going to do it, just like who watches the military. Instead what makes Buffy accountable is what she learned season 5, being Slayer doesn't rob her of her ability to love, her humanity.
But she's not immortal. And there will be other slayers that follow her. And there is no guarantee that Buffy will always be right and proper. Or that the slayers that come after her will follow in her footsteps. That's why there are checks and balances in the US Constitution. Because it safeguards society against the vicissitudes in human nature. Unless, of course, Slayers really are morally superior than regular humans. To the extent that there's a Social Contract between Slayers and Society, there's no such oversight or protection. And there really should be. And there should be some sense from Buffy et al.
It's hard to tell a "humanist" story with such a disregard for human society and its institutions. In the end, that's what Whedon does. The rules that apply to regular people don't apply to slayers, because they're better than everybody else. They aren't human.
So what if she didn't mobilize the general population. The general population couldn't handle it.
But the elected representatives could. Just like elected representatives are supposed to direct National Security Policy that the general public isn't capable of handling. And the General Public can reject those leaders if the policies fail. (LBJ, for example.)
Suppose then, that the Shadowmen, the Council, down to Buffy, really do represent Tribal Elders. What does it say about their leadership then - that the entire tribe voted to desert the leadership? Because essentially, that's what happened when the inhabitants deserted the town. Buffy et al didn't initiate, encourage, or lead evacuation. The Town essentially gave up on her as a protector. That pretty much destroys their credibility.
Granted, Whedon probably only did that so he could blow up the town without feeling bad about killing inhabitants, and didn't think more about it - but what happened is what happened.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
You write a musical in your spare time. Or maybe just come up with episode after episode of TV actually worth watching off the top of your head. I believe CwDP was written in 2 days. It isn't a story of elitism. It is Joss wrestling with being so extraordinary, so different and all the shit that goes with this.
He does something remarkable in that story which undermines all your criticism. He takes Xander the Everyman and Dawn the Everywoman and elevates them. Even without superpowers, they are "extraordinary." We get entire episodes about this. We have "The Zeppo" where because he doesn't have superpowers, Xander feels unimportant. Not only does he save the day in his own way (which he does a lot, including in "The Yoko Factor"), but he doesn't have to tell others about this. This is shown again with Dawn in "Potential" when she hands the stake to Amanda.
Perhaps the general population is ignored, but they are represented by Xander and Dawn. Buffy does stand up for them. So do Joss in even having normal characters in a world of superheroes.
How they've become refugees, and she doesn't even think on them.
Then why is she wandering the streets? Just getting some fresh air? As general, she has to do what she feels she must, but inside all of this is killing her. Your message about including the community is just what Joss does. He takes the burden of being the only one and empowers others to help her. She learns just like with Dawn in order to protect others, you have to show them the world. She does this on a smaller scale than you would like with only the Potentials, but the Buffyverse exists within our own. There still has to be some sort of deniability for the general public for this to work.
Buffy is always thinking about others. That is why she feels the burden of leadership.
To the extent that there's a Social Contract between Slayers and Society, there's no such oversight or protection. And there really should be. And there should be some sense from Buffy et al.
You draw it up then. Or better yet, how about you figure out how to handle things if our military ever really decided that it wanted to be in control. Police states are really military states. What saves the US is that we are such a large country that it is hard to get all the people on the same page to do something like a coup. That is what makes it impossible, not some piece of paper or theory.
It's hard to tell a "humanist" story with such a disregard for human society and its institutions. In the end, that's what Whedon does. The rules that apply to regular people don't apply to slayers, because they're better than everybody else. They aren't human.
I don't know what show you are watching because I saw Faith go to jail, though that was on Angel. I distinctly remember Buffy going to turn herself in as well. The big message with Faith was that they aren't better than everybody else or above the human law. The problem comes in when the human law is insufficient to handle the supernatural, such as with Warren and Willow and even Faith who had to go voluntarily.
I don't think there is a disregard for human society or its institutions. As a bit of a liberal those institutions aren't viewed as sacred by the writers. They points out the flaws in them and societal thinking, but I don't think they are disregarded. They are seen as insufficient to handle the fictional supernatural.
But the elected representatives could.
You mean like they did Season 4?
And the General Public can reject those leaders if the policies fail.
Like when they have to actually pay for something, make some type of sacrifice or don't like the immediate ramifications? The GP is one of the most selfish, short-sighted group there is. This is reflected in public policy. To be honest, the GP didn't understand Buffy and as such they shouldn't be the ones to pass judgment on her. The justice system only works with a jury of your peers because our peers can understand us.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
Perhaps the general population is ignored, but they are represented by Xander and Dawn. Buffy does stand up for them.
I don't think so at all. If Whedon tries to do that, he fails. What do Buffy's actions reveal about her valuations of those who possess might relative to those who do not? This isn't Season 3. Buffy stands up for those with Potential. She does not stand up for Xander or Dawn - she marginalizes them. If they stand for the people. Did the Bolshevik propaganda of a "Workers' Revolution" undermine the claim that the Russian Revolution wasn't actually a workers' revolution?
There's a major gap between the rhetoric and the reality inside the story. And it doesn't hold up. It's not enough to say "this is supposed to symbolize that" - it must actually do so.
He takes Xander the Everyman and Dawn the Everywoman and elevates them.
He elevates them to position of servant. In world where some people are chosen and others are not, the Everyman exists to be part of the Servant Caste. Buffy does not value them as much as those who have Might, specifically because they do not have might.
Buffy is always thinking about others. That is why she feels the burden of leadership.
But she has to express this concern through action. She doesn't warn the guy to leave town because she can't protect him - she snidely kicks him out. She doesn't evacuate the town - she's taken by surprise that the citizens are fleeing. That she's so far out of touch with the population she fancies herself to be serving indicates that she is not actually as concerned with them as she would like to believe.
The big message with Faith was that they aren't better than everybody else or above the human law. The problem comes in when the human law is insufficient to handle the supernatural, such as with Warren and Willow and even Faith who had to go voluntarily.
No. The message is that they shouldn't be above the law - above human law. That they shouldn't be better than everybody else. The message also is that, regardless of what should be, functionally they are above the law. They are better than everybody else.
And correcting for that discrepancy isn't a priority. It's been reinforced and perpetuated by Chosen. Society is at the mercy of the Slayers to Police themselves. They aren't going to have to deal with the New York Times or Congress. Society isn't going to be allowed the tools to deal with Slayers, or the world they inhabit. Because Slayers are above the Law. They shouldn't be, but they are. That needs to change.
I don't think there is a disregard for human society or its institutions. As a bit of a liberal those institutions aren't viewed as sacred by the writers.
I'm a liberal too. I don't view those instutions as sacred. But I view them as valuable. I take them seriously.
They are seen as insufficient to handle the fictional supernatural.
That's a baseline assumption. I think it's a bad assumption to make. Democratic social instituions are remarkably flexible. I don't think it's entirely baseless to distill this argument... In the end, the argument is that democratic social institutions are incapable of handling things that really matter.
Like homeland security.
We're not supposed to be afraid of a group of Paramilitary Superpowered Warriors because they're a metaphor for flowering womanhood. Whereas we're supposed to be nervous about the Initiative because it's a metaphor for unaccountable government gone awry. Functionally, though, there's no difference between how the Initiative and Slayer Inc interfaces with the human population. The Initiative is just a bit more sophisticated about it, and drawn a bit more nakedly. And thus, the metaphor breaks down.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
He failed in your eyes, but then again I'm getting the impression that you just want to justify how you see things and criticize the show because it wasn't written from the perspective you view the world.
This isn't Season 3. Buffy stands up for those with Potential. She does not stand up for Xander or Dawn - she marginalizes them.
It's called an arc. Buffy does something wrong, Buffy learns the right way, Buffy saves the day. She makes Xander take Dawn to a safe place, in effect saying they aren't capable of fighting and marginalizing them. THAT isn't how Chosen goes. Both Dawn and Xander fight. They fight together using their brains. The story hasn't marginalized them at all. It isn't just how Buffy treats someone, but how the story does.
It's not enough to say "this is supposed to symbolize that" - it must actually do so.
I think both "The Zeppo" and "Potential" actually do so.
He elevates them to position of servant. In world where some people are chosen and others are not, the Everyman exists to be part of the Servant Caste.
Servant Caste? Where the heck are you getting this? Every person on the show is valued for what they bring to the table. Dawn is seen as extraordinary because she can accept that she isn't a superhero and instead become Watcher Junior. What you are saying in effect is that only the pilots matter in the Air Force. The ground crew, the intelligence gathers, all of that, that is just the "Servant Caste." We refer to them as Support, but that does not make them lowly or it some sort of Caste system.
There is no Caste system in Buffy and to place one on top of it seems to miss the whole picture. Not everyone can be a pilot. Not everyone can write a musical in a summer. Not everyone has certain type of Potential. That does not mean there is a caste system. That means that different people have different gifts and need to be valued no matter what. That is what that whole all men are created equal stuff is about. No matter what our talents or anything else, we all need to be valued. Buffy is the person that even valued soulless Spike. She is the most democratic person on the show and she has enormous power and doesn't have to. She listens to what Holden says. She normally listens to everyone. This season she got off-track, but that is part of the arc.
But she has to express this concern through action.
Everyone flee vampires are coming? She isn't appointed their leader or army, so why would they listen to her? You are faulting her for not living up to your idea of a leader, when she has no expressed authority other than to fight demons and that has to be done in secret.
The message also is that, regardless of what should be, functionally they are above the law. They are better than everybody else.
They are stronger, but "better"? If this were the case, Angel wouldn't have convinced Faith to go to jail. Any human being is "above the law" that can outrun it. How many fugitives are in this country and abroad? How many Nazis escaped persecution? Are these people somehow "better" than others because they aren't serving their time?
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
You're getting the wrong impression. S3 wasn't written from the perspective with which I view the world, and yet I think it's excellent. I don't think Whedon intended to send the messages about entreprenurial leadership and civic involvement that I love so much - I think he just wanted a cool fight. I don't think Whedon intended to tell a story glorifying elitism. But I feel like he did.
She makes Xander take Dawn to a safe place, in effect saying they aren't capable of fighting and marginalizing them. THAT isn't how Chosen goes. Both Dawn and Xander fight. They fight together using their brains. The story hasn't marginalized them at all. It isn't just how Buffy treats someone, but how the story does.
But in a previous comment, you told me it was about Buffy's journey, and in Buffy's eye - they're marginal. And whatever esteem Buffy has developed for Xander and Dawn - it doesn't carry over to those normal humans you tell me they represent.
Every person on the show is valued for what they bring to the table.
(snip) What you are saying in effect is that only the pilots matter in the Air Force. The ground crew, the intelligence gathers, all of that, that is just the "Servant Caste." We refer to them as Support, but that does not make them lowly or it some sort of Caste system.
I don't say that only pilots matter. Buffy does. And there are people who aren't valued for what they bring to the table. - by Buffy and everybody else. Those people are called civillians.
You are faulting her for not living up to your idea of a leader, when she has no expressed authority other than to fight demons and that has to be done in secret.
Because it conflicts with the claim that she's democratic or empowering people. If she's supposed to be a democratic leader who empowers large numbers of people, then she has to actually fulfill the role? She doesn't. How empowered did the citizens feel in S7, when they felt so disenfrachised and terrified as to flee town? Not very. And BtVS isn't concerned with those people - they're afterthoughts that have to be pulled off the chessboard so Joss can blow up the town without feeling bad. If you drop the claim that Buffy is really about empowering anyone beyond the elite subset of people who are Chosen (which is still fairly laudable presuming she or her support follows up on that with due diligence) and I'll drop much of my criticism of her leadership.
This is the thing I don't get
You are a smart guy, a very smart guy. Don't you ever feel like you don't belong because of that? Isn't your life ever made more difficult because you don't quite fit in? You keep talking about elitism and glorifying it. The story isn't about how Buffy is "better" than everyone because she is slayer. It is about how she doesn't fit in because of this and how she deals with that. It isn't about elevating Buffy or putting others in some sort of caste system. It is about how Buffy deals with a society that doesn't recognize her and doesn't appreciate her. It is about how Buffy deals with having to protect a society that makes her job and life more difficult. Joyce says it, wouldn't the cops be happy to know they have a superhero in town. Buffy knows it doesn't work that way.
Just look at how badly Joss has been treated by the networks. This is the story of a superhero. His name is Joss Whedon. If that means I'm drinking the purple kool-aid so be it. This man helped give me back my memory after 24 years and makes me feel not so alone and he doesn't even know me. This is a man that made Marti Noxon and Jane Espenson and myself better writers. So what if some of his writing staff didn't have the talent for him to develop and they left the show. That is just life. Call it elitist, but dealing with that label is something the exceptional have to deal with. It is part of society sucks and makes my life harder.
If you drop the claim that Buffy is really about empowering anyone beyond the elite subset of people who are Chosen
I don't make deals, but I will say this. Buffy empowered a heck of a lot beyond some elite subset. She empowered Willow. She empowered Xander. She empowered Giles. She empowered Angel. She empowered Spike. She empowered Andrew. She empowered Jonathan. She empowered Riley. She empowered Faith. She empowered Anne. She empowered Dawn. She empowered me.
Two Way Streets and Public Service Ethic
Or you can deal with that society by recognizing that it has validity, by engaging and being a part of that society, by transforming it from within where you see abuses - because the people who compose that society have as much worth as I do. That's why I've spent my entire professional career in public service. And the "service" is a key part - believing that those people really do matter enough to sublimate my ego to their service. To not reject society because I feel like I don't fit in.
To give up my free time and serve voluntarily on a traffic planning commission, and listen to both citizen responses and expert testimony before I offer up a plan.
To see myself as a part of the community and want to add to it. Not withdraw from it. Not to quit on it, or the people who comprise it, when they disappoint me.
I will say this. Buffy empowered a heck of a lot beyond some elite subset. She empowered Willow. She empowered Xander. She empowered Giles. She empowered Angel. She empowered Spike. She empowered Andrew. She empowered Jonathan. She empowered Riley. She empowered Faith. She empowered Anne. She empowered Dawn. She empowered me.
Of course she did. They're all better people because of her influence. Not her might. Unfortunatly - the message is - she empowered the people with Potential, and that the importance of that act, of their might, dwarfs the legacy she created by empowering that large list of people.
And that's crap. The real story should have been the legacy she created with the people who didn't have potential. That she empowered the citizens of Sunnydale to stand up and fight the mayor and live in a town that would have been a nightmare if she'd ever come there. And what happens with the townsfolk and the potentials, in a large number of ways, completely undermines the prior message.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
Like homeland security.
My husband works for Homeland security and I'll make that argument. I'll make the argument that because of the influence of an uneducated selfish General Public, we aren't handling things adequately.
In the Buffyverse these things that matter are demons, they are metaphors of the issues of Buffy. Society doesn't help us with our psychological issues. It creates them. This is best shown season 4 when the big bad is the Mayor.
The show doesn't put a whole lot of faith in the government's ability to solve things. They are often put down and even turned into the big bad. The show is about the power of the individual. It is about our Potential. I like the show.
The interesting part is when the resources of Wolfram and Hart are harnessed by Angel and Co.
We're not supposed to be afraid of a group of Paramilitary Superpowered Warriors because they're a metaphor for flowering womanhood. Whereas we're supposed to be nervous about the Initiative because it's a metaphor for unaccountable government gone awry
We are supposed to not and fear based on what that group runs on. The Paramilitary Superpower Warriors have what is known as a heart. Throughout The Tales of the Slayer we see how that affects them. Personally, I think that is what determines potential, but that was never addressed, so it's my little wank. The Initiative isn't just government gone awry. We have to factor in Riley Finn and how they fight demons later.
It isn't about metaphors, but knowledge. Season 4 is a transition to something more spiritual. The contrast between the Scoobies and the Initiative sets up something much more spiritual. Why Riley goes with the Scoobies over the Initiative is very important. Yes, Maggie went awry. The important part is why. I think the season did a great job with that. It just didn't say "government bad and all soldiers are bad." They did a lot including contrasting Forrest and Riley and the last line that we hear from the Initiative (salt the earth) shows their lack of understanding about what they are dealing with.
That to me is where the fear comes in. When we see the "bad guys" as bad guys or something that can be used say against the Soviets, we aren't understanding anything. Buffy understands what she faces. She understands what she does. For that, we can trust her. The transition was to understanding who she is seasons 5-7.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
But that's amazingly problematic, because Goverment is the collective of individuals. Society is us. Society doesn't just create our problems. It also forms a baseline for our values and strengths.
There are bad Mayors. But there are also good mayors.
IMHO, it's a bit solipsistic to talk about the ways in which society fails us, speak of empowerment, but not speak on the positives which society and community offers. No man is an island. Nor is the subgroup.
IMHO, it undermines Whedon's message when he anually retells the story in which the isolated individual Buffy must re-engage her society of friends, and yet fails to note that the individual isolated scooby unit has not engaged it's society.
Buffy understands what she faces. She understands what she does. For that, we can trust her.
But it's not just Buffy anymore, is it. It's a collective. A collective that has already outsted Buffy once, and took her back because it lacked the power to go it without her. And when Buffy passes on, that collective, that governing organization of Slayers will continue on without her. And without mechanisms in place to ensure her legacy after she's gone. And without any coherent vision on Buffy's part to encode that legacy before she formed her new Governing body.
Because that's what we have. Instead of one slayer, one individual, we now have Big Government but without checks and balances. Which is bad because the Show doesn't put much faith in Big Government. Except when it will be Big Government by Slayers - because their moral superiority (relative to those not-chosen) will insulate the Collective of Big Slayers from failing society (and the individuals that compose it) in the way that a Big Government composed of Non-Chosen would fail us.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
Actually, I think my metaphor, with a small amount of refinement holds up rather well. For two reasons:
1. Joss's intent to portray only one metaphor about "female empowerment" does not negate the elitist and undemocratic metaphor I've drawn out.
2. Joss didn't do a very job putting forward the metaphor he intended, such that it doesn't really hold up all that well. Consider the long list of points I deliberately did not even bother to challenge in that particular post.
Whedon doesn't know much about social politics, community defense, civilian-military-government affairs; his ignorance really, really shows to the detriment of the overall message he intends to portray.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
1. This is Joss' stated intent. Seeing as he isn't female and he is admittedly very self-centered, the story has to have personal meaning for him. Especially with the male characters, he shows how the patriarchy hurts everyone, including males. He focuses on female empowerment to reincorporate the feminine into the masculine to bring about a humanist message of wholeness. In the end, it take the feminine Scythe combined with the masculine Slayer power to empower others and "change the world."
2. To use the words "elitist and undemocratic" to anything Joss has done and by extension to him just seems to miss the point. All men are not created equal. That is nice rhetoric that can motivate a nation to fight, but it isn't reality. Joss explores these inequalities and still values EVERYONE. Buffy may be the Slayer, but her life isn't more important than Dawn's. Buffy may be Slayer, but that doesn't mean she gets the thing she wants most, namely Angel. Buffy may be Slayer, but her mother still dies. Buffy may be Slayer, but she doesn't get special treatment in school. Buffy may be Slayer, but she has to work at the most meaningless job to put food on the table.
3. How much energy and time do you think this girl has? In addition to protecting the town, training the potentials, and raising Dawn, you think she should be organizing the community. She concentrates her time and energy on the assets she sees as most valuable, namely the potentials. This is neither elitist or undemocratic. It is effective time management.
2. Joss didn't do a very job putting forward the metaphor he intended, such that it doesn't really hold up all that well. Consider the long list of points I deliberately did not even bother to challenge in that particular post.
1. I think he did. I can defend it rather well and have to the people who didn't like or get season 7. I've even gotten a few to re-evaluate it. Now if I can do that for the mindwipe, I will have had a full life .
2. Everyone has problems with a show that didn't put forth the message they wanted to see, namely their own personal message. Most complaints come from this and not what Joss actually showed. He isn't a miracle worker. He can't overcome our personal biases no matter how talented he is.
Whedon doesn't know much about social politics, community defense, civilian-military-government affairs; his ignorance really, really shows to the detriment of the overall message he intends to portray
This reminds me of Buffy in "The Replacement." She was watching a fighting movie with Riley and criticizing it. I guess Joss saluted and invaded all willy-nilly for you. Most people don't know much about social politics, community defense, civilian-military-government affairs. He wrote for most people. He didn't really address any of these. He addressed a particular story from a particular view point. This might be a detriment to you, but to his overall message to his overall audience, it was fine.
Besides, he was always interested in symbolism more than practical ramifications of things. Tell me where Sunnydale exists. Is it the desert or on the coast? Is it a small town or one large enough for a university, air port and docks? I don't mind the inconsistencies because I too am more interested in symbolism. I would rather practicality be sacrificed at the altar of meaning.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
Except that, as noted above, it didn't actually change the world. It realigned some of the "military" bureacracy of the Watcher/Slayer Army, but it didn't actually touch the Civillian/Military at all.
Besides, he was always interested in symbolism more than practical ramifications of things... I don't mind the inconsistencies because I too am more interested in symbolism.
So be it. For me, the practical must underlie and reinforce the symbolism, or it won't hold up. The Leaning Tower of Pisa symbolizes a beautiful, tall, edifice - reaching up straight to the heavens. Unfortuneatly, in reality it's a tower built atop a sinkhole, and has tilted over to the point that it's not viable without massive exterior support work. And even with that work, it's still not habitable or usable.
If symbolism were all that mattered, all that were sufficient, what would be the point of proofreading?
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
You are looking at the women empowered as just tools. You are dehumanizing them. Joss put in a very powerful montage that showed that the Potentials empowered weren't just the army that Buffy had formed to fight the First. What happened to Dana is not just some "realignment." That is a very real change to the world. If hundreds, thousands, possibly millions of young women can now stand up for themselves, that is a very real change. If the Potential that was locked inside of these girls that was only released by the Slayer Spirit is now released, that is a very real change. That is a very real change that Willow can feel since she is a powerful witch. The change in her alone changes the world.
In Frey, this action is supposed to banish all the demons. There is a small problem with that. Joss had another series to continue and at least two demons (Spike and Angel) that couldn't be banished yet. Instead this is the first step to that. That step changes the world.
Perhaps not all individuals in it, but the world is more than just the general population. Any change to the Potentials or the cosmic forces is a change in the world.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
I'm not looking at those women at all. I'm looking at the women Buffy didn't empower. The women Buffy doesn't have an answer for. I'm looking at the Americans, who in 1787, still didn't get to vote because they weren't propertied white men. I'm asking what S7 had to say for them. And I'm asking how empowering S7 can really be, if it's not concerned with them. I'm looking at Sparta's Lycurgan Constitution and asking "what about the Helots?" I'm not saying it was wrong of Buffy to empower the Slayers. I'm just saying the importance of what she's done, significant as it seems, is vastly overstated.
Perhaps not all individuals in it, but the world is more than just the general population. Any change to the Potentials or the cosmic forces is a change in the world.
That's, by definition, true. Regardless, that the change is a positive one, is heavily dependent upon the assumption that these new Slayers are morally superior to the general population. Particularly given the very bleak view the Jossverse has of the General Population.
Re: My perspective is colored by the life I have Chosen
Thus one of the problems with being exceptional. You are expected to solve the world's problems. Angel is expected to save everyone and saving the world isn't enough for Buffy. She has to unlock the untapped Potential in everyone. Thing is not everyone has potential. They do what they can, even if there are always people that will claim it isn't enough. She didn't treat Spike nicely enough. She doesn't value her friends enough. She doesn't do yada yada yada.
It's Buffy and it's Willow and they've done more than anyone else. They not only released the potential in all those women, but they've lived up to their own potential. What more can you ask of anyone?
Exceptional
But that's not what Whedon claimed, and it's not what others claim of Buffy. The reality of her acts, exceptional as they are, do not live up to the claims.
If Buffy only stands for them, the Chosen, then she's done plenty. If one wishes Buffy to move beyond the parochial and stand for all women, or for empowering her community - and not just a small elect - then she hasn't done enough to do that. It's a different standard for a different set of expectations. And I've been very consistent about that distinction.
I wrote something, but I can't tell if it posted
All I can say in Joss' defense is that he empowered me in ways that few can even understand. If that is drinking the purple kool-aid, so be it.
She empowered Willow. She empowered Xander. She empowered Giles. She empowered Angel. She empowered Anne. She empowered Jonathan. She empowered Riley. She empowered Spike. She empowered Dawn. She empowered Andrew. She empowered Faith. She empowered everyone she came into contact with. That is who Buffy was.
Buffy empowers the entire high school in season 3. Then the students just go back to being themselves again, as we see from comments made at a party later. Maybe that is part of Joss' exploration because it is part of Joss' experience. Some people can be empowered and some can't. It sucks, especially when you want to help everyone. Not everyone has potential. It just isn't how people are. Call it elitist or whatever. Such comments only contribute to the difficulty of being exceptional in a world that rewards mediocrity.
The show was about a superhero. His name is Joss Whedon. I will back-up his claims because I am evidence of those claims.