I am going to post my thoughts on the demon without a soul excuse for what happen in Seeing Red. The following is about two vampires who got souls and how visible their atonement is.
Joss Whendon gave Liam three personas. Spike was given two. Here lies the difference between them and redemption.
Liam, the idiotic naive whoring boy we can compare that to William the bad poet with a love for his mother. Thus there is no true difference we can accurately compare with. Different mortal men, different lives, different centuries. Moving on.
Joss then gives us Angelus, Scourge of Europe, evil vampire extrodinaire. Now exhibit William the Bloody or Spike by later years for affections of torturing with railroad spikes. Again only difference is age and sire and at this point trivial. We had mortals, and now demons inhabiting their dead bodies. One more jump to go.
In the final role of developing these two vampires Joss gave them souls. Angelus becomes Angel, a very miserable creature with so much grief he wallows in alleyways and feeds off of rats because human blood horrifies him.
However Spike is still Spike.
He doesn't get a new name, he is not with a soul made known to be any different. Spike does not ask to be known as William or Willy or Will or the other possible names that could stem from William. He does not find it distasteful to be labelled by the vampire's awarded name for cruelty.
There is no calling to the fact that there is a soul, a change, a difference in him. No one appears to recognize that there is a soul there. Except a few trivial times in the beginning where he blames her for his soul.
Spike remains just like before, the bleached blonde vampire who doesn't show much of anything but the enjoyment of antagonizing others. And this is after he's crazy! He's sane! Able to damn well make conscious choices on who he and what he is.
In Buffy season two, we got amazing leather pants and an attitude for Angelus. As Angel we lost those outward appearances that Angelus had taken on. The only thing unexplained to be either Liam/Angel/Angelus is the gryphon tattoo which ultimately is the only remaining outward decorative that stays the same. Spike still loves Wood's mother's jacket, still bleaches his hair, and occasionally smokes. The only time his appearance is not Spike like was during the time he was in the basement of the school. That changes though and he's once again looking like a cool badass.
Angel grieved, tried to kill himself to keep himself away from others and the danger he represented as Angelus. To be a vampire, is almost worthy of shame to Angel. Spike however doesn't seem weighed down by grief, granted a soul shouldn't mean pain and hardship but he should feel sorry that those people are dead. The only grief exhibited was during the trivial time in the highschool's basement.
Joss Whendon has not given the viewers of this television show any true way to prove that there is a soul in Spike. He is the vampire he was, and hasn't changed except by his own saying so and a vague probably misleading. "I want to give her what she deserves."
Where is Spike's third persona? Where is proof of his soul?
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timeasmymeasure
Edited to Read Nicer
Joss Whendon gave Liam three personas. Spike was given two. Here lies the difference between them and redemption.
Liam, the idiotic naive whoring boy we can compare that to William the bad poet with a love for his mother. Thus there is no true difference we can accurately compare with. Different mortal men, different lives, different centuries. Moving on.
Joss then gives us Angelus, Scourge of Europe, evil vampire extrodinaire. Now exhibit William the Bloody or Spike by later years for affections of torturing with railroad spikes. Again only difference is age and sire and at this point trivial. We had mortals, and now demons inhabiting their dead bodies. One more jump to go.
In the final role of developing these two vampires Joss gave them souls. Angelus becomes Angel, a very miserable creature with so much grief he wallows in alleyways and feeds off of rats because human blood horrifies him.
However Spike is still Spike.
He doesn't get a new name, he is not with a soul made known to be any different. Spike does not ask to be known as William or Willy or Will or the other possible names that could stem from William. He does not find it distasteful to be labelled by the vampire's awarded name for cruelty.
There is no calling to the fact that there is a soul, a change, a difference in him. No one appears to recognize that there is a soul there. Except a few trivial times in the beginning where he blames her for his soul.
Spike remains just like before, the bleached blonde vampire who doesn't show much of anything but the enjoyment of antagonizing others. And this is after he's crazy! He's sane! Able to damn well make conscious choices on who he and what he is.
In Buffy season two, we got amazing leather pants and an attitude for Angelus. As Angel we lost those outward appearances that Angelus had taken on. The only thing unexplained to be either Liam/Angel/Angelus is the gryphon tattoo which ultimately is the only remaining outward decorative that stays the same. Spike still loves Wood's mother's jacket, still bleaches his hair, and occasionally smokes. The only time his appearance is not Spike like was during the time he was in the basement of the school. That changes though and he's once again looking like a cool badass.
Angel grieved, tried to kill himself to keep himself away from others and the danger he represented as Angelus. To be a vampire, is almost worthy of shame to Angel. Spike however doesn't seem weighed down by grief, granted a soul shouldn't mean pain and hardship but he should feel sorry that those people are dead. The only grief exhibited was during the trivial time in the highschool's basement.
Joss Whendon has not given the viewers of this television show any true way to prove that there is a soul in Spike. He is the vampire he was, and hasn't changed except by his own saying so and a vague probably misleading. "I want to give her what she deserves."
Where is Spike's third persona? Where is proof of his soul?
Meghan