First of all, thanks for this thoughtful and articulate essay. You made a lot of excellent points, and said a lot of things I'd been thinking, and some I hadn't been thinking, but that I agree with anyway. *g*
I just wanted to say something about this Redemptionista comment - "Spike loves more completely and powerfully than any other character on the show."
This is in my opinion, completely untrue. I would say a more accurate statement is that Spike loves more SELFISHLY than any other character on the show. Only with DRU would I say that he acts out of what I would call love. Because only with Dru does he consistently put someone else before himself. Love, in my opinion, must include some element of wanting what is best for the person you claim to feel the emotion for.
Spike's so-called "love" for Buffy in season 6, was in my opinion a fixation or an obsession, not real love. Or if it was love, it was a selfish, self-obsessed love. What you talked about in terms of his "bringing her into the dark" to me is a demonstration of how selfish his love is. He wants Buffy. And he's willing to hurt her to keep her with him, because he doesn't care about what's best for her, only what HE wants. He isolated her from her friends, he constantly pushed her down emotionally, he was incredibly manipulative, and he actively tried to keep her depressed, traumatized, and alone because the only way he could have her was if she was damaged and desperate. But he didn't care if she was hurt as long as he could HAVE her.
I think the rape was an extension of the pattern of his behavior in season 6. And that's why I don't agree with the Redemptionistas who dismiss it by saying it was out of character for him. It was taking to the extreme the imbalance in their relationship, the disregard for her well-being, and as you pointed out...her personhood. Spike didn't see her as a person. He saw her as something to possess and hold on to at all costs.
In terms of what that Redemptionista said, maybe Spike is more consumed by his emotions than any other character on the show. (Not to say that he FEELS emotions more deeply, or that his emotions are somehow more valid, but that he is unable to control them.) Maybe Spike has the least control over his desires. But is that love? Is the depth of love determined by how much you want a person, and how far you're willing to go to get them, who you're willing to hurt to have them? Especially if the person you're willing to hurt is the person you claim to love? I don't think so.
And I'm sure that it can be argued that Spike with a soul was a changed man; that once he had a soul he was able to truly love unselfishly. I didn't watch season 7. I quit when Spike got his soul because I knew it was going to be a redemption patch, and I didn't want to see that. So I can't really talk with certainty about how they dealt with Spike's redemption and the Buffy/Spike relationship in season 7. But just based on what I've read here, I don't know that it was ever fully addressed. The love Spike showed Drusilla, the most unselfish love I've seen from him, came when he had no soul. Therefore, even if the writers changed the B/S relationship in season 7 on the basis of his having a soul. I don't think that a soul alone is enough to explain away his treatment of Buffy as an object, the way he saw her only through the lens of his own need, or the abusiveness in their relationship. If he could love Drusilla as a person and care for her well-being over his own without a soul, then why was his relationship with Buffy different? That should have been addressed I think. The deep sickness in their relationship should have been dealt with and faced if they were to have some kind of trust. And I agree with you that the way he got his soul, in terms of the challenges he faces, never showed any real awareness of his past crimes, or challenged him on any emotional or mental level.
The whole thing is very disappointing, and unsatisfying, especially when I think about how well-written the show (and the relationships on the show) used to be.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
I just wanted to say something about this Redemptionista comment - "Spike loves more completely and powerfully than any other character on the show."
This is in my opinion, completely untrue. I would say a more accurate statement is that Spike loves more SELFISHLY than any other character on the show. Only with DRU would I say that he acts out of what I would call love. Because only with Dru does he consistently put someone else before himself. Love, in my opinion, must include some element of wanting what is best for the person you claim to feel the emotion for.
Spike's so-called "love" for Buffy in season 6, was in my opinion a fixation or an obsession, not real love. Or if it was love, it was a selfish, self-obsessed love. What you talked about in terms of his "bringing her into the dark" to me is a demonstration of how selfish his love is. He wants Buffy. And he's willing to hurt her to keep her with him, because he doesn't care about what's best for her, only what HE wants. He isolated her from her friends, he constantly pushed her down emotionally, he was incredibly manipulative, and he actively tried to keep her depressed, traumatized, and alone because the only way he could have her was if she was damaged and desperate. But he didn't care if she was hurt as long as he could HAVE her.
I think the rape was an extension of the pattern of his behavior in season 6. And that's why I don't agree with the Redemptionistas who dismiss it by saying it was out of character for him. It was taking to the extreme the imbalance in their relationship, the disregard for her well-being, and as you pointed out...her personhood. Spike didn't see her as a person. He saw her as something to possess and hold on to at all costs.
In terms of what that Redemptionista said, maybe Spike is more consumed by his emotions than any other character on the show. (Not to say that he FEELS emotions more deeply, or that his emotions are somehow more valid, but that he is unable to control them.) Maybe Spike has the least control over his desires. But is that love? Is the depth of love determined by how much you want a person, and how far you're willing to go to get them, who you're willing to hurt to have them? Especially if the person you're willing to hurt is the person you claim to love? I don't think so.
And I'm sure that it can be argued that Spike with a soul was a changed man; that once he had a soul he was able to truly love unselfishly. I didn't watch season 7. I quit when Spike got his soul because I knew it was going to be a redemption patch, and I didn't want to see that. So I can't really talk with certainty about how they dealt with Spike's redemption and the Buffy/Spike relationship in season 7. But just based on what I've read here, I don't know that it was ever fully addressed. The love Spike showed Drusilla, the most unselfish love I've seen from him, came when he had no soul. Therefore, even if the writers changed the B/S relationship in season 7 on the basis of his having a soul. I don't think that a soul alone is enough to explain away his treatment of Buffy as an object, the way he saw her only through the lens of his own need, or the abusiveness in their relationship. If he could love Drusilla as a person and care for her well-being over his own without a soul, then why was his relationship with Buffy different? That should have been addressed I think. The deep sickness in their relationship should have been dealt with and faced if they were to have some kind of trust. And I agree with you that the way he got his soul, in terms of the challenges he faces, never showed any real awareness of his past crimes, or challenged him on any emotional or mental level.
The whole thing is very disappointing, and unsatisfying, especially when I think about how well-written the show (and the relationships on the show) used to be.