I got a clue from a Joss interview in which he spoke about how touching and fab he found the idea of a man changing himself for a woman. And I guess I just don't find that particularly romantic or original or moving at *all*.#
Which is funny to me, because I thought Whedon had already told that story, only in a far more layered and nuanced manner. In Season 3, it's pretty clear that love for Buffy is a motivating factor in Angel's efforts to pull himself out of the gutter and drag himself back from hell. But at the same token, Angel's shown reading philosophy on his own, seeking out Giles for help, and having dreams and thinking about his future. And he's confronted by other characters, and show engaging in serious reflection.
Angel and Buffy (and the other people in Buffy's life) are shown having discussions and arguments with back-and-forth dialogue - interaction that presents Buffy (and her friends) as people rather than objects in Angel's story. In very limited scenes, Whedon establishes Angel as taking charge of his moral agency. To a lesser extent, I felt that Faith's story was handled in a similar manner.
But, it doesn't seem to me like Whedon thinks about exploring this in a critical manner with Spike. Characters aren't really presented as engaging in dialogue about what they feel Spike's return means to them, to Spike, and to Buffy. What are the characters (particularly Buffy) thinking or feeling while they're stuck just standing around waiting for Spike?
I'm a bit less observant of the gender implications of the storyline. I don't know that it's about a man turning his heroine into an object because he couldn't see a female perspective, or whether it's simply the case of a good storyteller losing his vision and creative energy, and writing like a hack regardless of the gender of his title character.
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timeasmymeasure
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Which is funny to me, because I thought Whedon had already told that story, only in a far more layered and nuanced manner. In Season 3, it's pretty clear that love for Buffy is a motivating factor in Angel's efforts to pull himself out of the gutter and drag himself back from hell. But at the same token, Angel's shown reading philosophy on his own, seeking out Giles for help, and having dreams and thinking about his future. And he's confronted by other characters, and show engaging in serious reflection.
Angel and Buffy (and the other people in Buffy's life) are shown having discussions and arguments with back-and-forth dialogue - interaction that presents Buffy (and her friends) as people rather than objects in Angel's story. In very limited scenes, Whedon establishes Angel as taking charge of his moral agency. To a lesser extent, I felt that Faith's story was handled in a similar manner.
But, it doesn't seem to me like Whedon thinks about exploring this in a critical manner with Spike. Characters aren't really presented as engaging in dialogue about what they feel Spike's return means to them, to Spike, and to Buffy. What are the characters (particularly Buffy) thinking or feeling while they're stuck just standing around waiting for Spike?
I'm a bit less observant of the gender implications of the storyline. I don't know that it's about a man turning his heroine into an object because he couldn't see a female perspective, or whether it's simply the case of a good storyteller losing his vision and creative energy, and writing like a hack regardless of the gender of his title character.